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Here I am after the fifth premiere episode (if I'm counting the unfinished MM! 1 too) that I've seen this season...

Whilst I did the usual and marked off shows according to a combination of summaries and seiyuu casts, I've been avoiding introductory materials for certain shows as much as possible.

And so, with Sore demo machi wa mawatteiru, this is the scene where it clicked (7.5 mins in)...



The voice that is.

And now I'm wondering why I hadn't realised it the first time the Manager/Owner opened her mouth...

Heck...I spent the rest of the episode giggling like crazy. Talk about the expansion of one's range once you hit middle age (and thus really shouldn't be voicing teenage boys anymore), but I seriously didn't expect this! wwwwwwwwwwwww

Comments

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sharpsight
Oct. 12th, 2010 04:30 pm (UTC)
MM!: I tend to have questionable-foundation suspiciousness of this, but unfortunately don't have anyone medium-distance in circles of conversation to talk about it with.

Regarding a certain character's backstory in it, have you seen/read 'Working!!' and 'Ookami-san to Shichinin no Nakama-tachi'? *curiosity*

--

(*saw the episode, but did not realise it; only recognised it (recently) for Otome Youkai Zakuro*)
karice67
Oct. 12th, 2010 05:45 pm (UTC)
Hm...I've actually dropped MM!! without finishing that first episode, and I didn't watch Ookami-san, but I might an idea of what you're talking about as I'm half-reading summaries from Random Curiosity.

Recurring themes/character backstories to do with certain violent tendencies? (how does Ookami-san fit with the other two btw?)

well...er, I've heard Sakku in so many roles now that I could probably recognise him in almost anything, given enough lines to listen to...

p.s. I'm hope you found something you can use for "abomination"! (If you've played Warcraft 3 btw, it's apparently just put in katakana for the Japanese version of the unit's name)


Edited at 2010-10-12 05:46 pm (UTC)
sharpsight
Oct. 12th, 2010 07:35 pm (UTC)
Indeed, regarding said character. I may read the linked website's thoughts later.

Working!!, the first released of all, had a girl who involuntarily punched males out of fear--the reason was eventually revealed to be because of secret paternal training.

Ookami-san had a girl who was wooed by and went out with a very popular student in her school, was (almost?) raped/assaulted by him, and then due to rumours that he spread and all former friends believed was isolated/shunned/victimised/ostracised with no one believing her (true) story, causing trauma that remained even after she moved to a new school where no one knew her.

Curiously, the manga version of MM! has the near-identical (except for one loyal female friend, a parallel of the male protagonist's one loyal male friend) isolation, but the anime so far only shows the first part and has left out the secondary social horror. Granted, I do not know what was in the MM! light novel, and so would not know if anything were added in the manga version. Ookami-san I've also only processed the anime version of.

Notable may be that the Working!! series started first (2005), then Ookami-san started (2006), then MM! (2007) (if I remember the Wikipedia dates correctly).
It may help to clarify that there's no relevant Working!!/Ookami-san overlap.


(The bakemono option seems best for now; I'll hold onto that to still the concern which comes from not knowing what to use, and if I learn a better term some time in the future I'll swap it for that at that time. Using and possibly having to explain an English word could work depending on necessity, but would be good to avoid if avoidable.)
sharpsight
Oct. 12th, 2010 07:45 pm (UTC)
((Further clarification: the MM! character essentially takes the Ookami-san character backstory and the Working!! character type, using the first's backstory as the in-story explanation for the second's type. (Or such is the impression that is gotten.)

I find the other characters interesting, and nothing stands out about them as significantly suspicious.

The Random Curiosity impressions have been looked at, but nothing touching on my impression immediately spotted. (Hmm, I'm overusing the term 'impression'.)))
karice67
Oct. 13th, 2010 02:01 am (UTC)
ack...big MM! spoiler on wiki...though I suppose it doesn't matter if I'm not following it...

The relevant MM! novel chapter is summarised here (This blogger has, btw, seen Ookami-san as well as Working!!, going by his posts and comments). Does that match the anime?

The impression I get is that similarities are very common in Japanese works - manga, dramas, light novels (though probably not serious literature). It could be because all these ideas are already out there and it's just a coincidence that different authors decided to use the same tropes (strangely enough, I'm reading a book on coincidence right now, which says that the phenomenon is more common than you'd think). Or perhaps the MM! author has read both of the other works and consciously or subconsciously decided to use ideas from them.

Hm...I think that the "androphobic" trope at least has been around longer than any of the three. Googling 男性恐怖症 brings up a lot of WORKING!! links atm, but there's a light novel from 1994 that also uses it, and there are probably more. The Ookami-san // MM! similarity is perhaps a bit more serious...but I haven't read or seen enough to know how common it is in Japanese media. Though I will say that I can believe two different people can come up with the same basic idea, because the material (serious bullying, though I've never seen it go up to such an insidious level) is actually present in Japanese schools.

But as I said, I haven't read MM! or Ookami-san...Seanver (the blogger I linked above) might be able to discuss it with you though...


Edited at 2010-10-13 02:06 am (UTC)
sharpsight
Oct. 13th, 2010 11:16 pm (UTC)
'Wiki': which wiki? *curiosity (and doesn't mind reading spoilers in this case)*

--
*curiously goes to read the summarisation*

So far, it matches what I read in the manga; the anime then has taken out some parts, possibly for time or sensiblity reasons or just to show in later episodes. *gets to the limit of the manga presumably available, and keeps reading*

--I just realised: the linked webpage doesn't specify whether it's a light novel volume or a manga volume. Is this known? If the second, then it isn't surprising that it would match exactly what I remember reading.

Pleasant to find out what happened to the antagonist character!

*notes the Working reference*
--

*nods slightly regarding coincidences* That's a reason that I'm reluctant to jump to conclusions, and instead ask for others' impressions. Another aspect to consider is that in many cases it's acceptable for tropes to be reused, such as the 'tsundere' character type which is used so widely that it would be more or less absurd to accuse of plagerisation an author for using that character type. One might thus imagine that actions in the hope that certain seen-to-be-underused character types would become common (or the imagining that they would) would thus be excused under the same reasoning. Hard to know the exact circumstances without personally scanning the brain/mind of the author, though.

Apologies for not reading through the linked article, as it's late here at the moment; may I know if the 1994 novel's androphobia in question involves reflexive punching of males?
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Similarly, while horrifying levels of bullying is a common theme, the boyfriend-assault/after-breakup-rumours/all-others-turning-against-one three-way combination would be much less likely. Each on its own is relatively common, but even the after-breakup-rumours/all-others-turning-against-one two-way combination I can only offhand think of in one other context (that I think as a minor arc in '9 Ban Me no Musashi'?).
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Hmm... sort of how it's not surprising to see antibiotic resistance genes spreading quickly through bacterial populations when doctors widespreadly use one antibiotic on its own, but much more surprising when they follow a policy of only using it in combination with another or two different antibiotics at the same time which kill the same bacteria in different ways.

I may try asking the linked person's thoughts (if I can get the comment form to work); thank you!
karice67
Oct. 14th, 2010 05:09 am (UTC)
The Japanese wiki - it was a vol 7/8 spoiler. <3

If you go to the MM! summary page on the linked blog, Seanver has it tagged as the "MM light novel".

You might want to remember that copyright only covers the expression of an idea, not the idea itself (wiki). Generally speaking, tropes like tsundere etc and general character types are broad enough (and so widely used) that it really isn't plagiarism. A good example is shoujo manga in general - there really are only so many ideas that the mangaka draw from, from plot points to imagery. It's up to the reader to determine when he or she is sick of reading similar things over and over again. And of course, the popular authors should be the ones who do it best.

That 1994 novel is about an entire class of androphobes, each of whom takes a different approach to protecting herself. At least one of them does punch the male protagonist, though whether it's reflexive or not is left unsaid.

>Similarly, while horrifying levels of bullying is a common theme, the boyfriend-assault/after-breakup-rumours/all-others-turning-against-one three-way combination would be much less likely.

Thing is, when I think about this kind of situation in a Japanese school, that is precisely how I'd expect it to go if a school jock commits DV and the girl wants out. Especially if the girl is a nobody without the guy - who's going to believe her? I'm not sure how much contact you've had with Japanese youths, but you might be surprised as how homogenously they tend to behave. Then there's the issue of underage sex, coupled with the sad reality that it's generally seen as ok for guys to sleep around, but not for girls.

Back to the point though...the issue of copyright and plagiarism really only deals with the expression of the idea. Which is usually at the level of dialogue but can possibly be extended to sequences of events etc in some cases. I haven't read MM! or Ookami, but I'm getting the impression that the authors are just using the same ideas (though one of them may have, to put it nicely, gotten inspiration from the other). In the end, it's probably up to you how comfortable you are with that.

Edited at 2010-10-14 05:09 am (UTC)
sharpsight
Oct. 14th, 2010 05:55 pm (UTC)
[insert big curious eyes here]

Ahh. Thank you!

*nods...* Following legal routes in such cases would be arbitrary and possibly frowned on more. Full understanding of a thing is desirable, but it would be a shame to (for instance) withhold good parts of a book from other reasons for the sake of parts which would be best to not be approved of, or approval directed to the appropriate origins. (Again, hypothetically speaking.)

Interesting!

A good point. *nods* It could be that this is in fact a common cultural theme, but that my view is skewed due to only coming across it for the second time.

(Again, I am not advocating any type of legal action.)
*ponders*
karice67
Oct. 16th, 2010 08:47 am (UTC)
Again, I am not advocating any type of legal action.
Wasn't suggesting it either, not really. Though I'm rather tickled to find that J.K. Rowling will soon be having a hearing about the allegation that she's stolen ideas from someone for Harry Potter...I wonder what extent of alleged copying their talking about.
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